More Rumors??? Re: LA Gang Connections to McCartney (December 14, 1997, by Mike Doughney)

Subject:      More Rumors??? Re:  LA Gang Connections to McCartney
From:         Mike Doughney <mike@mtd.com>
Date:         1997/12/14
Message-ID:   <9712141201.AA17699@basement-1.mtd.com>
Newsgroups:   soc.religion.christian.promisekeepers



> References: <348B7293.1BEA@best.com> <9712082125.AA24787@basement-1.mtd.com> <66m6cj$p0u$1@news1.epix.net>
X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.4

On December 10, not_dvdronk@epix.net wrote:

> I must be missing something.  Mike McCartney does not run Promise
> Keepers.  Bill McCartney runs Promise Keepers.  How it has the link
> been made between Mike and Bill, or we just assuming because they have
> the same last name they are related in some way?

The story directly references McCartney. (The link given for the story
doesn't work, you have to go to espn.sportsnet.com and use the 'more
features' link at the bottom to get to the gangs feature.) Excerpt:

: These days, Bill McCartney is the very public face of the Promise
: Keepers.  The founder of the fastest-growing evangelical movement in
: the Western world can be seen everywhere, passionately urging men to
: recapture biblical authority within their families.
:
: He is touring the country, promoting a new book. He is a popular and
: charismatic speaker. You may have seen him recently on ABC's 20/20.
:
: In another lifetime, Bill McCartney was the head football coach at the
: University of Colorado. He won the national championship in 1990. As
: it turns out, that title was procured in no small part with gangsters
: from South Central Los Angeles.

> Mike Doughney <mike@mtd.com> wrote:
> 
> >Well, as I see it, people who run authoritarian, cell-structured
> >groups, if they're not in open conflict with each other, tend to stick
> >together.  As an example, it's recently been revealed that Jerry
> >Falwell was bailed out by Sun Myung Moon's empire; the fact that they
> >have seemingly contradictory beliefs doesn't stop them from sharing
> >resources and having very similar long-term goals - that being the
> >establishment of a theocratic government.
> 
> This seems to be a very tilted selfserving view, IMNTBHO.

As my license plate frame says, "I'd rather be living in a democracy."
I don't think that subverting our government, on the basis of a
rewrite of history that falsely insists that this nation was founded
as a "Christian nation," to one particular Biblical interpretation 
is a good thing for anyone, including, over the long term,
Christianity itself. 

>  In as much
> as the the constitution garentees freedom of religion, any adverse
> attack by the government on one religious practice raises or lowers
> the bar in defining what is legitimate government control of religion.

And how does this follow from anything that I said?

The constitution guarantees freedom of religion.  The issue is not -
despite the victimhood ploys of certain religious leaders - government
control of religion, but a government becoming controlled by a
particular flavor of religion.  The Promise Keepers are part of a
huge movement attempting to bend American culture to make such a
political change possible.  Again, this is a development that I
believe is a direct threat to me and to people I care about.

> That is why I have seen people of widely different beliefs assisting
> others in the practice of their religion.  It is the same as defending
> free speach.  In as much as the governments inhibiting the political
> speach of a discenting idology cannot be done without impacting the
> very faberic which defends all our speach.  

Now, perhaps you should go brush up on how Sun Myung Moon and the
Unification Church have been destroying families for their own ends
for decades, and how religious leaders all across the board have
condemned the practices of his church, and then come back and tell me
why an allegedly good Christian guy like Falwell should accept money
from a convicted felon who's been running a religious cult abhorrent
to most Christians. You might start with the page at
http://www.fom.org/moon. 

And again, you jump to a bogus appeal to the defense of free speech
when all I've put forward is one important question:  why do these
allegedly Christian religious leaders - including the leader of the
Promise Keepers - apparently have no qualms about associating
themselves with known criminals? 

Mike Doughney
Biblical America Resistance Front
www.barf.org
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